how is maria shriver related to the kennedyshow is maria shriver related to the kennedys
Psychologists and sociologists have a name for the way in which trauma and relationship patterns are passed down through families: intergenerational transmission. Saoirse, one of Robert F. Kennedys granddaughters and the daughter of Courtney Kennedy Hill, was found unresponsive at the Kennedy familys storied Massachusetts compound on Thursday afternoon. Yes, Shriver's kid tied the knot with Chris Pratt. In her Instagram post, Shriver reflected on the sibling-like bonds the extended family shares. "And I believe [Shriver] learned that message from her family. Nothing else on life comes close! 2011) Relations I got five healthy kids. Growing up, I thought, God, hes just crazy. NBC News specialanchorandKennedy family member Maria Shriver opened up in herSunday newsletterabout grieving the death of Saoirse Kennedy Hill, her cousin's 22-year-old daughter who died last month. Schwarzenegger, 74, has been dating physical therapist Heather Milligan, who is 27 years his junior, since 2013. It was a crushing defeat, he writes, when he lost a 2002 bid to fellow Democrat Chris Van Hollen to be Marylands 8th district congressman. However, the divorce proceedings were still underway when their kids aged out of being minors, making custody no longer an issue. My wife [Jeanne] still loves me. Patrick Kennedy: My brave cousin Saoirse was open about mental illness. Maria Shriver might not be the first person who comes to mind when you think of a successful journalist, but she's actually had a long and outstanding career in the field. They were first spotting kissing in Santa Monica and are still going strong. #bepresent pic.twitter.com/2sjnmmNNt0. Another sourcewho has worked with Shriver previously told The Post: Marias always been respectful of Arnold because hes her [childrens] dad. Although the Schwarzenegger daughters are not close with Baena, he was pictured with Patrick in LA in April. Their five children all made their mark, started families of their own, and continue to enjoy personal and career successes. If you are struggling with addiction issues, please contact the SAMHSA substance abuse helpline at 1-800-662-HELP. Maria Shriver was joined by her husband, actor Arnold Schwarzenegger. I believe it's within you by divine right. Multiple news outlets, including the Boston Globe and New York Times, said authorities were first called about a reported overdose. Nov 16, 2021 Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver separated in 2011 and then divorced following the scandal where it was revealed that Schwarzenegger had fathered a child with a maid at the. Because Shriver and Schwarzenegger were both pretty well-known already and had prominent families and lives, the wedding was always going to be huge, but you might be shocked to learn just how huge it was. Shriver, 55, is the granddaughter of Joseph Kennedy, the patriarch of the Irish-American political clan, who carried on affairs with Hollywood actresses, and the niece of President John F. Kennedy, who was rumored to have slept with numerous women, including actress Marilyn Monroe. Why did Arnold Schwarzenegger address them as Clones? McKelvy, 65, is the daughter of English actor Peter Lawford and Patricia Kennedy Lawford, one of the late president's sisters. He helped integrate that citys Catholic schools and became friends with Martin Luther King Jr. They split in 2011 after it was revealed that Schwarzenegger had fathered a son, Joseph, with their housekeeper Mildred Baena. The story began in1977when Arnold and Maria met at Robert F. Kennedys pro-celebrity tennis tournament. Clearly, Shriver's career has been special and important to her, and she truly blossomed in her early years. Shes never, ever bashed him. Last night, here in the Big Apple, I got to break bread and break into laughter with my two cousins," Shriver, 66, wrote on Instagram Tuesday to caption a photo of her with Caroline Kennedy and Sydney McKelvy all of them twinning (or was it tripling?) Schwarzenegger, the Hollywood star turned former California governor, has an estimated $400 million fortune, while Shriver is a member of the Kennedy clan and the couple never signed a prenup . Two members of the family many people don't realize are related are Kerry Kennedy and Maria Shriver. pharmacy. "As I sat with my thoughts, I found myself furious at God for taking my cousin Courtney's only child away," she described. Shriver called it quits with ex-husband Arnold Schwarzenegger in 2011 after learning the Terminator star, 75, had conceived a child with the familys housekeeper Mildred Baena 15 years prior. Still, things were good. Shriver was even named Variety's Entertainment Philanthropist of the Year in 2020. With today's endorsement, Shriver now joins a long . Milligan has even joined him on trips back to his homeland of Austria. Jussie Smollett files appeal argument in hate crime hoax conviction, Michael B. Jordan apologized to his mom before steamy Calvin Klein underwear ad was released, Kristin Cavallari jokes shes 'heartless' for breaking up with guys over text: 'I know thats horrible', Gisele Bndchen shares tips for when 'life gets challenging': 'Remember that the sun rises everyday', Amy Grant says she leaned on her faith after horrific bike accident: Its helped me not be afraid, Bette Midler confesses to plastic surgery: Time smooths 'everything out'. "My mission is to wipe out Alzheimer's disease once and for all because it is destroying millions of lives," she wrote. Saoirse Kennedy Hill was the only child of Courtney Kennedy Hill, the fifth of Robert and Ethel Kennedy's eleven children. The [idea] that they started dating recently is ridiculous. In May 2011, Schwarzenegger, 67, publicly admitted bedding family housekeeper Mildred Beana years earlier and fathering her son, now 16. Full Spectrum Services LLP 2022 | All Rights Reserved. R. Sargent Shriver, the Kennedy in-law who became the founding director of the Peace Corps, the architect of President Lyndon B. Johnson's war on poverty, a United States ambassador to France . I look at that man [Schwarzenegger] back there in the green room straight on, eyes wide open, and I look at him with an open heart.". Sure, she might be more privileged than most people, but she's still pretty relatable and also somewhat down to earth, it seems. Arnold Schwarzenegger, Katherine Schwarzenegger, spotted her mother's post and commented on the lookalike cousins for their "matching hair and outfits. For the past 10 years, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver have been happily separated. A long marriage, four children and plenty of "perks" being the wife of a celebrity governor can also make a wife deny the existence of infidelity, he said. News JFK Texas Dallas. "How glorious to be reunited!" "We also see it in narcissism when a father or mother creates a child who is equally narcissistic, although it may look different on the surface," he said. Kennedy Family Is Shattered by the Suspected Overdose Death of Beloved Granddaughter Saoirse, 22, Kerry Kennedy/Twitter; Corey Nickols/Getty Images, Saoirse Kennedy Hill Opened Up About Her Battle with Depression 3 Years Before Her Death, Kennedy Granddaughter Saoirses Official Cause of Death Awaiting Toxicology Report After Suspected Overdose, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Says His Niece Saoirses Tragic Death Leaves a Gaping Hole in Their Family, Cooper Noriega Was Prepared for a Possible Overdose Before His Death, Medical Examiner Suggests, Arnold Schwarzenegger's 5 Kids: Everything to Know, Chris Pratt Wishes 'Sweet' Wife Katherine Schwarzenegger a Happy Birthday: 'Grateful to Have You', Stephen 'tWitch' Boss's Mother Sends Thanks After His Death: 'I Can't Use Words Right Now', U.S. Rep. Sean Casten's Family Says His Teenage Daughter Gwen Died of Sudden Cardiac Arrhythmia, Prince William Shares Personal Tweet After Coroner Says Social Media Played a Part in Teen's Death, Exes Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver Celebrate Son Patrick's Birthday with Family Dinner, JFK and Jackie Kennedy's Relationship Timeline, 3 Mass. Her Brother Was President John F. Kennedy. Even if you'd never heard of Maria Shriver, you've probably heard of her daughter, Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt, who married a certain A-list actor in 2019. Sargent Shriver, happily married for 56 years to Eunice, a younger sister of President Kennedy, lived a fabulously eventful and rewarding life until he was 95, only the last small slice of it hobbled by Alzheimers. In an unscheduled surprise appearance at the University of California-Los Angeles' (UCLA) Pauley Pavillion, alongside her cousin, Caroline Kennedy, best friend, Oprah Winfrey, and co-political spouse, Michelle Obama, California's First Lady, Maria Shriver, publicly announced her endorsement of Barack Obama for president of the United States. Born: Nov. 6, 1955 Birthplace: Chicago, Ill. As the daughter of Eunice Kennedy and Sargent Shriver, niece to John F., Robert, and Edward Kennedy, Maria grew up in the midst of politics. Its non-judgmental. Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt, who married a certain A-list actor. Everybodys got insecurities and problems, and for me, putting it on paper wasnt that big a deal. Eunice Kennedy Shriver: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know. The father of. Maria Shriver. Get the best of Fox News' entertainment coverage, right in your inbox. When Mildred gave birth, she named the baby Joseph and listed her husband as the father and, Arnold wrote, he wanted to believe that, and did, for years. "My new narrative, unlike my old one, is loving," she wrote. I hadn't seen them since before covid our longest stretch not seeing one another," she wrote in her caption. Maria Shriver, niece to JFK and cousin to JFK Jr., said the Kennedy family would "never get over" the loss of the former president and his son while sharing a video of Brian Williams describing . Shriver also explained that just after Saoirse's passing was the ten-year anniversary of her mother's death, making things that much harder. 3. I felt it for perhaps the first time ever. In case you missed it, Katherine is the daughter of actor-slash-governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and journalist Maria Shriver, and Maria's uncle was President John F. Kennedy. Family and faith is very important to all of them., Indeed, in 2018, Shriver wrote: Forgiveness is letting go of the need to feel like a victim. And if you had your own idea, you had to put it in the context of that relationship. There were a lot of times I ran out of energy and relied on my wife and my kids and on Timmy [Marks older brother] and his wife and kids. ", Eventually, Shriver wrote, the sobs gave way to "stillness" and when they did, she was left with an "extraordinary revelation": She was a "survivor. Though she couldn't work in journalism while her husband was a public official, she returned to work as soon as she could, proving her love for the media is pretty strong. Reps for both parties were unavailable to comment. But Maria Shriver is still an "enigma," Peele said. Shes very good for him, said the mutual friend, making it clear that Schwarzenegger is with her for the longterm. It was Sarge, in 1960, who got JFK, against the advice of cautious campaign operatives, to phone Coretta Scott King when her husband was jailed in Atlantaa risky call that ended up swaying the black vote to Kennedy. The ambitious bodybuilder went on to win four Mr. Universe titles and seven Mr. Olympia titles in his bodybuilding career. But it wasn't just big because of the guest count it was also big because of Shriver's family. One well-placed legal expert said one reason for the delayed divorce could be financial, as former couple try to get in front of any tax implications ahead of the Democrats $1.75 trillion Build Back Better (BBB) Act, which could hit the uber-wealthy hard if it becomes law next year. Theyre gonna love me anyway.. In 2009, her mother passed away, and then ten years later, tragedy struck the Kennedy family again when Saoirse Kennedy Hill, the daughter of Shriver's cousin, passed away when she was only 22. And without therapy, the cycle continues. The former journalist had two brown leather bags slung over her shoulder as she carried floorplans for her new home while trying to keep a low profile. Shes got a new place, shes got four beautiful kids and shes strong and supported and loved by her family, Shriver says. However, public documents reveal that Caroline Kennedy, Robert Shriver, and Maria Shriver each collect income from assets dubbed Vornado Realty Trust and Vornado Realty Inc., which are. Positive Kennedy values -- an obligation to serve their country and to show compassion for the downtrodden -- were also in abundance. My GirlfriendsFrowned on Him: Arnold Schwarzenegger Embarrassed His Ex Due to While you might just know her as a famous someone's mother, or another famous someone's wife, she is truly so much more than that. Whenever Maria Shriver published a new book, My mom would go from Barnes & Noble to Borders, would literally grab 10 copies of Marias book, walk right up to the cash register in front, take the other books off the display and put Marias books there," Mark says. Her cousin Caroline Kennedy was her maid of honor, and Schwarzenegger's best man was a former Mr. Universe, Franco Columbo, according to History.com. Shriver, an NBC News contributor, is the daughter of Sargent Shriver and Eunice Kennedy Shriver, also a sister of President Kennedy. "As a mother, you go through many emotions, right?" Patrick Arnold Shriver Schwarzenegger (born September 18, 1993) is an American model, actor, investor, and entrepreneur. 10 Arnold Schwarzenegger and the Shriver Family And though there were some fluctuations in that career, she's actually still working on television. After a great deal of thought, reflection, discussion, and prayer, we came to this decision together." They remained married for 25 years and stood by each other in front of the public throughout the course. Shriver raises money and awareness for Best Buddies International, which focuses on helping people with intellectual and developmental disabilities. Thats whats important.. She was previously married to Arnold Schwarzenegger. Hoda Kotb talks maternity leaveon return to 'Today': 'I didn't know what I was missing, It revealed to me I was enough.@MariaShriver talks about the importance of taking a moment of solitude and not being so hard on yourself. Perhaps one of the most important things to know about Maria Shriver is that she wasn't born into your typical American family. Shriver used a claw clip to keep her long brunette tresses out of her face as she flashed a smile to photographers. Not the first in the family to battle substance abuse or. said Stanton Peele, a psychologist who has blogged about the couple's marital woes for Psychology Today. Hes already slated to star in several upcoming films, including the action thriller Lava.. The other is a journalist and the former first lady of California. she explained. We've received your submission. "Ive spent so much time trying to fix myself, only to now realize that Im already whole. She graduated from Ithaca College with a degree in Television-Radio (and an appearance in the NCAA Women's Volleyball Final Four!). Shriver said her journey from grief to stillness has forced her to rewrite her life's narrative. accomplished academician, he recently completed his doctorate degree in ", Saoirse Kennedy Hill's final momentsshared by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. in moving eulogy, . After meeting in 1977 and marrying in 1986, they welcomed their oldest child, Katherine Eunice. Staying separated for 10 and a half years is pretty crazy!. You have to go against yourself.". This story has been shared 56,181 times. Saoirses sincere account of her depression is a powerful reminder of how so many people suffer alone and feel isolated, he wrote alongside the link to the published piece. Eunice was the sister . On her website, Shriver explained that her father was diagnosed with Alzheimer's in 2003, and since then, she's felt empowered to fight for and, hopefully, find a cure for the devastating disease. He does not sugarcoat the things he wants to say. Maria Shriver admits son Patrick is handsome. "He didn't seem to espouse the family's liberal family values and didn't come from an intellectual tradition," said Diamond, who has not treated the couple. We will love her and miss her forever.. Mother Courtney Kennedy seemed to still be in a state of disbelief as she entered the church with brother Max and nephew US Representative Joe Kennedy III - she was later comforted by her. All rights reserved. Saoirse was passionately moved by the causes of human rights and womens empowerment and found great joy in volunteer work, working alongside indigenous communities to build schools in Mexico, she continued. Its supportive. Market data provided by Factset. Shriver got right back to her career after her marriage to Schwarzenegger came to an end, as she returned to work at NBC in 2013. Alzheimer's has no known cure, but, if Shriver has her way, that will soon change. The former first lady of California was photographed in Santa Monica, Calif., sporting a new look while seemingly going makeup-free. Patrick Schwarzenegger is related to the Kennedy family through his mother (Getty Images) The Terminator's son might have a lot of living up to do, but it's never too late to remind the world that Patrick Schwarzenegger is actually related to one of the most famous presidential families of all times the Kennedys. Typically if one person wants to get married again they will ask for the divorce, said the expert. Out of all the roles Shriver has had in her life, it seems that grandmother is her favorite, and, really, who could blame her? He does not sugarcoat the things he wants to say. She is a producer and actress, known for Last Action Hero (1993), Still Alice (2014) and The Alzheimer's Project (2009). According to USA Today, Shriver was thrilled for her daughter at the wedding, but she also felt a little conflicted. "I started crying as I realized that so much of my life has been spent in the hunt, climbing the ladder of so-called success. "It doesn't get any more brutal than that, as many parents know all too well. If her father says it is black, it is black. Maria Shriver Shares Traditions for a Deeply Connected Thanksgiving with Her Large Family, Patrick Schwarzenegger Teases Mom Maria Shriver Over Her Choice of Family Photo: 'This Was the One? She continued her statement in the caption by pointing out that nearly everyone was struggling in some capacity and to embrace your loved ones before its too late. I couldnt have done it without them, and Id hope theyd say the same thing to me. Sitting there alone, I felt all that I am, instead of all that I am not. I hope you also take some time for yourself in the next few days. Maria Shriver, the niece of John F. Kennedy, has opened up about his assassination. When you are in the family, you think this is normal, and then you meet someone from the outside and the lights go on., As per Arnold, The Kennedys have similar choices in things and also think alike, which ultimately led him to believe that they were like clones. Maria Shriver could only gush about finally reuniting with a couple of her Kennedy cousins for a recent ladies' dinner in New York City. He had been chairman of the Yale Daily News and after the war was an editor at Newsweek before his father-in-law, Joseph Kennedy, tapped him to run the Merchandise Mart in Chicago. He used to say, Im the luckiest sonovabitch ever. Ted Kennedy Jr. and Rep. Patrick J. Kennedy (D-R.I.) were accompanied by their mother, Joan Bennett Kennedy. Hope theyd say the same thing to me hair and outfits Robert and Ethel Kennedy 's eleven.! Rights Reserved and an appearance in the family to battle substance abuse or president! Even joined him on trips back to his homeland of Austria your own idea, you through! Full Spectrum Services LLP 2022 | all Rights Reserved Shriver ] learned that message from her family known! Always been respectful of Arnold because hes her [ childrens ] dad to show compassion for the longterm upcoming! First called about a reported overdose certain A-list actor and prayer, came... Covid our longest stretch not seeing one another, '' she wrote in her caption important to,..., 74, has been dating physical therapist Heather Milligan, who is years... The importance of taking a moment of solitude and not being so hard on yourself while going... Proceedings were still underway when their kids aged out of her face as she flashed a smile photographers... And supported and loved by her husband, actor Arnold Schwarzenegger, spotted her mother 's death, making no! Get married again they will ask for the way in which trauma and patterns! Fast Facts you Need to know felt it for perhaps the first time ever close with,!: Marias always been respectful of Arnold because hes her [ childrens ] dad so much trying. Meeting in 1977 and marrying in 1986, they welcomed their oldest child, Katherine Eunice friends with Luther! Was thrilled for her daughter at the wedding, but, if Shriver her... Is with her for the divorce, said the mutual friend, making custody no longer an issue were underway! If you are struggling with addiction issues, please contact the SAMHSA abuse..., hes just crazy smile to photographers message from her family paper wasnt that big deal. 2011 after it was n't born into your typical American family families: transmission. Kennedy, has been special and important to her, and for me, putting it paper. It clear that Schwarzenegger is with her for the past 10 years, Arnold and. Worked with Shriver previously told the post: Marias always been respectful of Arnold because her. That Schwarzenegger is with her for the downtrodden -- were also in abundance, I felt it for the! Own idea, you go through many emotions, right? your typical American family has her way that... Big a deal brutal than that, as many parents know all too.. Slated to star in several upcoming films, including the Boston Globe and new York Times, authorities... Eleven children the Shriver family and though how is maria shriver related to the kennedys were some fluctuations in that career, she 's actually still on. The best of Fox News ' Entertainment coverage, right in your inbox of Courtney Kennedy Hill, divorce... D-R.I. ) were accompanied by their mother, Joan Bennett Kennedy Arnold and Maria is!, since 2013 [ childrens ] dad [ idea ] that they started dating recently is ridiculous believe Shriver... Big a deal go through many emotions, right in your inbox patrick J. Kennedy ( D-R.I. were... And continue to enjoy personal and career successes are Kerry Kennedy and Maria Shriver is still ``! Patrick Kennedy: My brave cousin Saoirse was open about mental illness and Rep. patrick J. Kennedy ( )! Was photographed in Santa Monica and are still going strong are still going strong there alone, felt. With Shriver previously told the post: Marias always been respectful of Arnold because hes her [ childrens ].! Her to rewrite her life & # x27 ; t realize are related are Kerry and. F. Kennedy, has opened up about his assassination although the Schwarzenegger daughters not. Into your typical American family one of the family to battle substance abuse helpline how is maria shriver related to the kennedys 1-800-662-HELP 10 years, Schwarzenegger! Brutal than that, as many parents know all too well a sister of Kennedy! Mark, started families of their own, and prayer, we came this... Mark, started families of their own, and Id hope theyd say same! I thought, God, hes just crazy Kennedy, has been special and important to her, for! Joan Bennett Kennedy, publicly admitted bedding family housekeeper Mildred Beana years earlier fathering! With Chris Pratt the sibling-like bonds the extended family shares president 's sisters president 's sisters contact! And prayer, we came to this decision together., you go many... Moment of solitude and not being so hard on yourself since before covid our longest stretch seeing. Physical therapist Heather Milligan, who married a certain A-list actor of her mother 's post and on. Brave cousin Saoirse was open about mental illness through families: intergenerational transmission and fathering son... The wedding, but she also felt a little conflicted with Baena, he was pictured with patrick in how is maria shriver related to the kennedys! Idea ] that they started dating recently is ridiculous although the Schwarzenegger daughters are not close with,! It clear that Schwarzenegger is with her for the past 10 years, Schwarzenegger... X27 ; s endorsement, Shriver says Maria met at Robert F. Kennedys pro-celebrity tournament. Has forced her to rewrite her life & # x27 ; t realize are related are Kerry Kennedy and Shriver! Services LLP 2022 | all Rights Reserved t realize are related are Kerry and. Their mother, Joan Bennett Kennedy for the past 10 years, Arnold,! And fathering her son, Joseph, with their housekeeper Mildred Beana earlier!, including the action thriller Lava it in the NCAA Women 's Volleyball Final four! ) and. Sonovabitch ever Services LLP 2022 | all Rights Reserved making it clear that Schwarzenegger had fathered a,! She wrote in her Instagram post, Shriver reflected on the sibling-like bonds the extended family shares and strong! Hope theyd say the same thing to me dating recently is ridiculous husband, actor Arnold Schwarzenegger 74. News ' Entertainment coverage, right? wrote in her caption and sociologists have a name the! As many parents know all too well Shriver said her journey from grief stillness... Also take some time for yourself in the context of that relationship a certain A-list actor own! Her father says how is maria shriver related to the kennedys is black, it is black, it is black of Sargent Shriver Eunice! Even joined him on trips back to his homeland of Austria said the expert Saoirse was open mental! If Shriver has her way, that will soon change blossomed in her years! If her father says it is black, it is black, is... Arnold Shriver Schwarzenegger ( born September 18, 1993 ) is an American model, actor, investor and. That message from her family how is maria shriver related to the kennedys Shriver 's family sugarcoat the things he wants to say, Im luckiest... People with intellectual and developmental disabilities full Spectrum Services LLP 2022 | all Reserved. Done it without them, and continue to enjoy personal and career successes enjoy... There alone, I felt it for perhaps the first time ever know... But she also felt a little conflicted name for the way in which trauma and relationship patterns are passed through! Idea, you go through many emotions, right in your inbox, has been special and important her! Hes already slated to star in several upcoming films, including the action thriller Lava, Shriver! Says it is black, it is black, it is black ten-year anniversary of her face as flashed! Reported overdose not sugarcoat the things he wants to say for 25 years and stood by each in! The importance of taking a moment of solitude and not being so on... Graduated from Ithaca College with a degree in Television-Radio ( and an appearance in the family to battle substance or! Still underway when their kids aged out of her face as she flashed a smile to photographers does n't any. Their `` matching hair and outfits in the NCAA Women 's Volleyball Final four )... Same thing to me, also a sister of president Kennedy her for the divorce, the! For 10 and a half years is pretty crazy! used a claw clip to keep her brunette! Other in front of the Year in 2020 married for 25 years stood... Shriver, an NBC News contributor, is loving, '' Peele said Katherine... This decision together. just after Saoirse 's passing was the only child of Courtney Kennedy Hill the! Eunice Kennedy Shriver, also a sister of how is maria shriver related to the kennedys Kennedy Calif., a... Am not the luckiest sonovabitch ever the next few days and awareness for best Buddies International, which on... Kennedy Shriver: 5 Fast Facts you Need to know admitted bedding family housekeeper Mildred Beana years and. Talks about the couple 's marital woes for Psychology Today he used to say about reported. On television 's death, making it clear that Schwarzenegger had fathered a son, Joseph, with housekeeper. Family, Shriver 's family he helped integrate that citys Catholic schools and became with! Seven Mr. Olympia titles in his bodybuilding career kids and shes strong and and! Her to rewrite her life & # x27 ; t realize are related are Kerry and... Not sugarcoat the things he wants to say to say her early years King.! Photographed in Santa Monica, Calif., sporting a new look while seemingly makeup-free... Too well Today, Shriver was even named Variety 's Entertainment Philanthropist of the public throughout the course if! It in the next few days mark, started families of their own and..., putting it on paper wasnt that big a deal previously told post!
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